EDI and What it Means in Anti-Racist Social Work Practice & Education Podcast

Editor's note: This text-based course is a transcript of the EDI and What it Means in Anti-Racist Social Work Practice & Education Podcast, presented by Candice Beasley, MSW, DSW, LCSW, BACS, Warren Graham, MSW, LCSW, ACSW, CASAC, and Benjamin T. Bencomo, DSW LISW, LCSW.

Learning Outcomes

After this course, participants will be able to:

• Identify the importance of diversity, equity, and inclusion in social work education and practice.
• Define anti-racist social work education and practice.
•  Associate social work's core value of social justice with anti-racist social work education and practice.
• Examine the use of authenticity in applying tenets of Anti-Racism and EDI to Practice.

Podcast Discussion

Ben: Hello, my name is Dr. Ben Bencomo, and you are listening to the Continued Social Work podcast. I want to thank you for joining us today. I am very excited. I have two guests joining me in the podcast, two colleagues and friends that I've had the opportunity to get to know through work on the Council On Social Work Educations Council On Racial, Ethnic, And Cultural Diversity. My two guests come with a wealth of lived experience a wealth of professional experience, and I am sure that you will enjoy getting to know them as I have in this upcoming podcast. The podcast for today will be part one, and we will continue the conversation with my colleagues during the second hour of our podcast.

So without further ado, I would like to introduce my two guests today. I am joined by Dr. Candice Beasley and Mr. Warren Graham. Candice Beasley is currently a clinical assistant professor at Tulane University's School Of Social Work in New Orleans, Louisiana. Candice is the practice sequence co-chair of MSW courses at Tulane University and is also a committee member on CSWEs Council On Racial, Ethnic, And Cultural Diversity. Her scholarship and research interests include anti-racism, oppression, safety in social work practice, anti-racism, and equity-mindedness in social work field education, emotionally focused couples therapy, risk assessment for witnesses of non-domestic violent crimes, and self-care/emotional wellness in African and African diasporic communities.

Candice earned her MSW from the University of Oklahoma at Tulsa, her DSW from Tulane University, and is a licensed clinical social worker and board-approved clinical supervisor in the state of Louisiana. Thank you so much, Candice, for joining us today.

Warren Graham is currently the assistant dean of field education and a clinical assistant professor at Stony Brook University's School Of Social Welfare, teaching in both the BSW and MSW programs. Warren is the lead instructor for the integrating seminar and fields of practice courses. His scholarship has included anti-racist oppressive practices and teaching identity and social justice, diversity and oppression, and clinical practice utilizing a global perspective, power, privilege, and oppression and social work, oppression, diversity, and human rights, contemporary social justice, and understanding white fragility and Black rage.

Warren has an MSW from Fordham University, BA from SUNY at Old Westbury, and is a fourth-year Ph.D. student at Adelphi University. Candice and Warren, thank you both so much for joining me today. I am looking forward to our conversation.

Candice: Thank you so much for having us.

Warren: Thank you. 

Ben: To start, if you would not mind, can you tell us a little about your path to social work? What brought you to this profession, a little bit about maybe your social work practice experience, and then your path that led to social work education and Candice, if you would not mind starting us off?

Candice:  Well, sure, so I ended up on the path to social work, personal experience, social work, personally worked for my family, but also Ben, I did not like nursing school, actually. And so when I went into my psych rotation and noticed social workers, I honestly wanted to do that, and I wanted to help people. I didn't really have a concept of what social work was, although I knew social workers helped greatly with my family in the past. And so, finally kind of stumbled into social work. Dare I say I started in social counseling. And realized that I did not like pathologizing people and that it had to be a little bit more than that. And so I had mentors along the way that said social work might be a better fit for you than counseling.

And they kind of pushed me into that arena. And then again, through mentors  telling me, “you are kind of good at teaching people, people kind of get you, and so you need to move from maybe training to teaching, have you ever considered that?” And so here I am. And so that is kind of how I moved into social work education. I did some adjunct teaching through the doctorate program and loved it. And so that is how I had kind of moved into social education.

Ben: Well, thank you. I, for one, am thankful for your mentors and for the people that helped lead you to our profession. I think that the profession is better for it, so thank you, Candice.

Candice: Thank you, I appreciate it.  

Ben: Warren, tell us a little bit about your journey.

Warren: So social work found me. I did not really stumble upon the profession as much as the profession came and smacked me over the head. So due to personal experiences, I was never exposed to social work early, but I always was interested in helping people, and I did not know what that looked like. I thought that only could be done when you are trying to understand behavior and the ways in which people treat one another and act and exist in these kinds of lived spaces. I thought that could only be done as a psychologist. So that was my plan until my last semester of undergrad, and my academic advisor said, so what do you want to do?

And I thought that was an odd question, considering the timing of my last semester. But when I told my academic advisor that I wanted to help people, I wanted to help people who are struggling with life on life's terms and in ways that are influenced by the world and the community around them. And my advisor said, oh, no, you do not want to be a psychologist. You want to be a social worker. And I said, well, what is that at? So that was the beginning of my journey to really uncover the depth and breadth of the profession and what that meant. At the time, I was working in substance use. So starting with addictions and doing addiction-specific training.

There was a certain point where I just realized I can only do so much for some of the clients I am actually working with. And a coworker said, yeah, you should go back and get your MSW because that would give you this skill set that you need to be more effective as a helper. So that is exactly what I did. I enrolled in a MSW program at Fordham University. And what I realized is this journey was not just about learning how to help other people, but it was also helping me because of that personal connection that actually brought me to the field.

So after that, I fell in love with the profession. I worked in addictions, I worked in mental health, and I worked in various community-based organizations until my mentor called me one day and asked me if I was interested in teaching a course on diversity and oppression in clinical social work, utilizing a global perspective. And I had just begun this kind of emerging scholarship in anti-racist practice, so I am thinking, yeah, that definitely aligns with where I want to go and how I see myself, and that allowed me to take my practice experience and what I've learned up until that point and really bring that into the classroom. And I have been in the classroom for 10 years since and loved every minute of it.

Ben: Thank you, Warren. I think that idea of the profession finding us is common. I think a common part of many of the stories that I share with my students as well as the idea of demystifying what social work is and is not. I think it is important for us as social work educators, especially because I think that students sometimes do have an idea of what social work is and is not, and once we realize that maybe it does align with our passions and what we want to do, that it opens so many doors and we all find a lot of alignment in that way with the profession. So I am also very thankful that your journey led you to social work and even more thankful that our three paths crossed and our shared passions led us to the Council On Racial, Ethnic, and Cultural Diversity for CSWE.

Now in that capacity, I know that we have had many conversations related to our topic for today, many conversations about our own experiences as BIPOC social workers and BIPOC social work educators. And so I, again, am just so thankful that you both agreed to join me for this conversation today. Now I know that many of those conversations have mirrored conversations happening in the profession, across the board from professional practice areas, agencies, and definitely in social work classrooms across the country. So in those conversations, this idea of anti-racism, this idea of anti-racist social work, practice, and EDI, I am going to let you two define that for us. And EDI has emerged. How would you define these terms, and in your opinion, are these terms, are they simply buzzwords? Are they buzzing trends, or are they terms that social work professionals need to be attentive to and need to pay attention to? Either of you would like to start. 

Candice: So I think that, well, I know, that anti-racism was a term that was kind of brought to the forefront by Ibram X. Kendi. And Ibram X. Kendi basically said that to be anti-racist is to be deemed to be the more appropriate antonym for racist. Right, and so you can't just say, well, I am not racist. The appropriate antonym is to be anti-racist. And so, for social work to be anti-racist is that active micro, mezzo, macro, that self-transformative work that our profession calls us to do. And it is actually embedded within our core principles of social justice. Right, and so anti-racism, it resides in our NASW code of ethics, actually standard 1.05, which tells us that we are to demonstrate an understanding of culture and act against oppression, racism, and discrimination inequalities, while also acknowledging personal privilege and engaging in critical self-reflection right.

And how are we supposed to do that? And so part of it is we are kind of negligent of that in a way. I think we believe ourselves to do that. You know, I think there is a difference between intent. I do not think, as social workers, we intend to not do that, but our impact is that we do not do that. Right, so I think. Finally, there's a word put on that for nuanced professionals entering schools of social work, our accrediting body of social work programs, which is the Council Of Social Work Education (CSWE). It requires that both implicit and explicit curriculums, through intentional design has to allow social work students to engage in diversity and difference in practice.

So once again, we are coming back to anti-racism as well because, unfortunately, our country is so deeply rooted in racism, and so it springs up once again, in our thoughts, it springs up in the way that we do things, it springs up in our values. And so anti-racism, I hope, is not a buzzword it is become that kind of buzz because of what has happened in our construct. But nonetheless, I think it is something that's going to solidify itself within social work for a very long time. And it is something that we need to be attentive to, not just BIPOC folks within the profession; everyone has to be attentive.

Ben: Absolutely, so more than just intent to do this, but actually living it out, living it out and following it through to who we are as social workers and our practice. Warren, anything that you would like to add to that?

Warren: Absolutely, and when we think, and Dr. Beasley talked about the difference between intent and impact, and as social work educators, we really need to take that to heart. What does that mean as we talk about the difference between implicit and explicit curricula? What does that mean when we are actually in the classroom? You know, what does it mean for us to challenge the lived experiences and the self-reflection of students in front of us so that we can reinforce these, the code of ethics and the requirements by CSWE to kind of disseminate this information. EDI as equity, diversity, and inclusion is, for me, just basically removing barriers for equitable treatment, even if that is in the classroom, even if that is in an institution of higher learning. You know, we do need to decolonize social work education if our intent is to actually teach students how to be agents of change in the communities that we serve.

One of the things that Ibram X. Kendi said, which I love, is it is not just enough to be not racist, right, you have to be anti-racist, and it requires an active fight against personal, political, and institutional barriers to oppression and policies that support marginalization and subjugation. And I will respectfully disagree with my colleague in that I do think it is trendy now, and that is not good. You know, I think in this woke cancel culture, it is becoming the thing to claim to be anti-racist. It has become boutique in a way that is performative. So if we are really going to do this meaningful work, then we need to do it very thoughtfully.

Candice:  I completely agree. I do not disagree that it is trending. And I guess what I am saying is it should not be because a word has now been given to it, but since the inception of social work, this is what we should be doing. However, a word was not given to it. This is what was implied all along. That we should have been doing, it is just that we have not been acting upon it. You know, I would even say that I believe June 26, 2020, the American Academy of Social Work And Social Welfare also initiated the Grand Challenge For Social Work, right? So let us go past the Academy for those people listening, who is like, well, maybe that's some higher institution stuff that these social work educators, that stuff, that's their stuff.

We are calling social work as a profession. So whether you are a researcher, whether you are a practitioner or anyone who is holding themselves out as a social worker, who has the terminal degree of MSW, this is for you as well, so the American Academy Of Social Work And Social Welfare, basically the Grand Challenge For Social Work to eliminate racism by promoting prevention and intervention programs, to eradicate racist policies, bias, and discriminatory practices within American society and called social workers to do that. So this is not about those of us who are in higher education. Anyone with the MSW terminal degree are called to participate in the Grand Challenge Of Social Work. And this was in 2020. So this is not for those who are new to social work like, oh, let us leave this to the young people to do.

This is not, oh, let us leave this to the higher education people to do. If you hold yourself out as a social worker, this is for all of us to do because these are the tenants of social justice. And if you hold yourself out to be a social worker, it is for you to do as well, all of us, and no one is removed from doing this.

Ben: Absolutely, and I think that from the inception of our profession and as our profession has evolved over the years, we have sort of become a bit passive. I think this idea that I am not racist and my social work practice is not racist, but when we allow ourselves to get complacent in that way, then we aren't being true to this idea that Ibram Kendi gives us this idea that the grand challenges give us of being actively Anti-racist, not only not engaging in it, but what are we doing about it, right? And so a little bit ago, Candice, you mentioned this idea of social justice. Now, considering that social justice is a core principle of the social work profession, why does our profession need to have this conversation?

Why is it important that we extend this from this podcast to wider areas, this idea of anti-racism, this idea of equity, diversity, and inclusion, and also, should this understanding and application of these tenants not come naturally or instinctually for all social workers? I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

Candice:  So we would like to think so, I mean, we would like, we would like to think so, but you know, so we, as a profession, unfortunately, are reflective of our construct. And although it may not, again, be our intent to be explicitly harmful, the impact of our harm is there, and we can look at any genre of social work. We start seeing these little things creep up, right? We see this in child welfare, for example; every so often, do not we see this, where we have to call people to the carpet, like, what are you doing? You know, once again, we have this disproportionality and what's happening. We call social workers back to the carpet about discriminatory practices in child removal, right?

And medical social work. Then we have these issues where we are calling people to the carpet about disproportionality and how discharge planning is happening, right? And so all of these kinds of different issues within practice. So if we want to say that these issues of discrimination and racism are not happening in social work practice, then we are not being honest with ourselves because if that were not the case, then we would not have these little things that are constantly creeping up whereas a profession, we have to call ourselves back. This is not just happening in medicine. This is not just happening in other fields; this is social work. And the reason I am bringing this up, and I am not picking on child welfare. I am bringing up child welfare because that is the genre of social work that is basically controlled by social work.

And that is where you see a large number of disproportionality of BIPOC children. Right, and so once again, we have to give credit to the fact that our profession is reflective of our construct, but furthermore, in 2015, CSWE found that if we were to analyze our profession overall and what people do not realize, it is 70% white, it is 70% white, 70% status quo. And so because our country functions in a system of white supremacy, according to CSWE, the social work profession functions in a system of white supremacy. And so again, who is it that social workers are helping us? Social workers are helping, and I am air-quoting BIPOC folks, but who are actually the people who are controlling the social work profession, and who are social workers made up of?

Status quo people, and who are the people at the top, like who are the deans of universities, who are the CEOs of social work agencies, who are the people who make it, they're actually white men. And then right under you have white women, that's who's actually running it. You understand, so, I mean, let's be honest, Ben, myself, you, and Warren, we are not the main people who are making up, you know, folks in the university, and I am going to just be candid. We are the people who are blessed slash lucky. And let us just be honest, you understand? So most of the people who look like us and who are reflective of us are in the trenches working. The people who look like us are not the decision-makers. They are not the policymakers in the social work profession, and here lies the problem.

Warren: And to add to that, when we identify the problem, you know, we are extensions of an existing construct, right, to use your words. And for some, that means we lack legitimacy, as we are talking about some of the challenges that we see. It should not have to take I. There was a time when I oversaw the adult and juvenile drug court programs in my community. And all of a sudden, CPS said, Child Protective Services said, maybe we should do blind removal meetings. So that as we are talking about taking children out of the home, we are doing it in a way that is sensitive to diversity and sensitive to identity and not punitive. You know, so as you pointed out, Dr. Beasley, like these mandates have always been part of our profession, why did it take in the 2000s for us to say, maybe we should wake up and start paying attention to disproportionality in the ways that margination marginalization is affecting communities of color, and maybe, and I found a study, a workforce development study maybe seven years ago that said is as high as 87% of social work are white women. So how are these white women being socialized to understand the difference? How are they being socialized to understand the nuances of working with differences in different cultures and different racial ethnicities, and what does that actually look like? Because if these are the decision-makers, and there's a lack of familiarity, which hasn't been reinforced by articles that are being used in schools of social work, by practice experiences that aren't connecting these student learners to diverse populations to learn from, then we are absolutely failing. We are absolutely failing the future of social work. And we are failing those communities that rely on us.

Ben: So, are we listening before we are helping? Are we actually engaging in social work practice that seeks to bring people in and understand their lived experience before we engage in that social work practice that we have been taught in that way? I actually, I'd be interested to hear from both of you as BIPOC social work practitioners and later BIPOC social work educators. Can you remember a time when you felt that the social work profession didn't fit with your own worldview, with how you viewed the world, and in what way?

Candice: It does not. Warren, you want to go first?

Warren:  You know, I am reminded almost daily how my being a BIPOC social work practitioner and educator in the field of social work, the profession of social work, has not kind of fit into my worldview because I see the world through systems and I see systems of domination and subjugation and oppression, and I see how these systems affect those who already marginalized, those who are already for lack of a better word damaged, who have been abused by these systems. So you know, we can do psychotherapy, we can do counseling, we can do case management. We connect individuals to systems but well to services. But if we do not pay attention to the systems that govern and oversee these individuals' lives, then what are we really doing?

You know, it is putting a bandaid on a gaping hole. And I used to think that my being a BIPOC social worker an educator would balance the scales. But you know, I have been, I have been in conversations with peers who not only did not understand concepts like implicit bias and microaggressions but didn't subscribe to them. So for me, those moments were wake-up calls that just because you are a social worker, just because you are going through a CSWE accredited program, just because you've been socializing what I thought was the same way that I would socialize to see the profession, that your lived experiences balance that scale. And you know, you can actually see the world quite differently.

So I have been reminded as an educator, as a practitioner, and as a student all across the social work institution that I have attended that I have been made to feel like my perspective was that of a minority. And it has been suggested that this is just my thing in air quotes, this is my thing. This is my hang-up. Not that I am speaking for untold amounts of BIPOC social workers, who are struggling with these ideas and experiences in the same way that our clients are struggling with them.

Candice: Yeah, I would have to agree with Warren, and it becomes kind of difficult. And I know that you all can relate to that because you are expected to do a job, correct? So you go in, and you are expected to be that practitioner for an agency, or you are expected to be the instructor or professor within the university, but then you find yourself also having to be a translator. And you are expected to be a protector because you are now working for a system that was not meant for you to be in, and you are working for a system that was not meant for your BIPOC students to thrive in, but yet, and still they've allowed them to enter into this system and what are you to do, right?

And do you let them fail because they do not understand how this construct is set up? They do not understand how it is made, yet they are brilliant in their own right. It is not set up for them to succeed because they do not understand how to take tests. CBT does not quite fit how they are to process things, you understand, strengths perspective or brief solution focused. The miracle question while I just got the hell beat out of me, and you want me to foresee what?. I do not know if I will be living tomorrow, but you want me to foresee something five years from now? I mean, so those things start becoming quite different, you know, for people of color.

And I am not saying every person of color, but that is a very Eurocentric construct, you know? And then, we move on to licensure, which is a very white construct. So it starts becoming very difficult, you know? And so I think for the person of color who is also the practitioner or the professor, we start getting very worn very quickly because we have numerous, numerous responsibilities that most white instructors or white practitioners do not even have to consider, and I am not saying, please, I want it to be understood. That does not mean that I do not have status quo instructors who stand in solidarity with me, who get it and understand it. And who will walk with me and walk on the side of us, you understand, and who fights the fight with us?

But I am just saying there are few and far between. Very far and few between because, as Warren said, some people just do not understand it. They do not see things the way we see it. And I will even extend that, Warren, not only do they not understand, they do not see things the way they see it. They will disagree with you, and they will turn around and still micro-aggress you. They will do it because they do not even understand. They do not even understand that concept, and they will harm us, and we get harmed. And what are we supposed to do? They are our colleagues. You know, and I have been harmed. And  I will say this, even working at Tulane University, you do not think it is difficult working at a university named after someone who was a slave owner.

That is difficult, you know, and so, but I mean, I am not saying that the university is not trying to change that narrative, but we are well aware of who Paul Tulane is. We are well aware of that, you know? And so when that goes back to what we were talking about earlier, Ben, when you are working in a construct that is so very deeply rooted in white privilege in white supremacy, and people will say, well, if you have a problem, somebody is going to listen to this, if you have a problem, then go work at an HBCU if you have got such a problem with it, go work at an HBCU, but then you do that. If all of us leave this construct and go to an HBCU, then what happens to the BIPOC students who are there? Then who helps them and who is there for them because they deserve to see someone who looks like them as well. So it is difficult.

Ben: Absolutely. And not only just those students who are looking for that identification in their instructor but the other students who need to have that experience and learn from it as well. If we are sheltering ourselves within a community that already lives this, that already understands this, and we are not extending this conversation to those people who live outside of that reality and who have no idea what it is like, I think that in that way, we many times can do more harm than good because it is comfortable for us, and we are told that it should be comfortable to stay within these constraints and in these environments, because then it does not make other people uncomfortable, right. I know that, for me, in my experience, part of it has also been in, what is the end goal, what does that finish line look like, and who decides that?

Right, from social work practice as a BIPOC practitioner, what does success as a social worker look like? And then, as a social work educator and looking at tenure and promotion and looking at all of the things that we experience that are expected of us, who sets that end line, and what does that look like? And then if I turn that to look at clients that I have served in communities that I have served when we talk success, and when we, thankfully we are moving away, the conversation is moving away a bit from the idea of competency, but who decides competency and who decides what success is and whose lived experience is absent there? So when we are working to support our students, when we are working to support our clients to be successful, to be, to reach that finish line, who is the one that decides that finish line, I think, has to be a part of that conversation as well.

Candice: Absolutely. I agree.

Ben: Yeah. So in that, to continue the conversation a little bit, in addition to our social work profession's ethical commitment to diversity. The profession also calls us to recognize the importance of human relationships to respect the dignity of each person and to practice with integrity, right? These are our NASW core values. Now in a few conversations that the three of us have had before, I know that we have also reflected on this idea of authenticity in our social work practice and authenticity in our social work education. Can each of you discuss what this idea of authenticity means to you, and how does this impact the idea of equity, diversity, and inclusion in social work?

Warren: So, if I may, I think it is so important when we think about the importance of human relationships and what that means and respecting dignity and practicing with integrity that we show up and being authentic means showing up as my most honest, real self in a way that's helpful for either students and helpful for helping to clients. You know, we can all sit in classrooms and who will teach us when to disclose, when not to disclose, what to disclose, and teach us a very sanitized way, interacting and engaging in ways that do not allow us to share our sense of self with the people that we are working with. And find that to be a disservice, a disservice to the individuals that I am sharing space with. I think it is a disservice to me, stunting who I am, not bringing that into that space because my experience is the sum and substance of who I am. That is the third person in that space that I could lean on.

And I think it is important that the programming that clients are exposed to that students are exposed to, which reinforces these ideas of marginalization. They are not just reserved for, lets say, our students of color or our clients of color. You know I, it is likely that I have experienced some of these things too. And that might be a powerful bonding moment between myself and a client or a student, especially if I can then make that cycle educational to talk through what I did to cope, what I did to weather the storm, what I did to survive in some of these conditions and experiences. So authenticity, I think we really need to expand what that is. I think we need to challenge what that is and really promote a way of interacting with and meeting clients where they are, but also remembering that they are meeting you where you are as well in ways that can actually support their growth.

Candice: Right, I believe it was Carl Rogers who pointed out about authenticity being integral to have any kind of meaningful therapeutic environment, any kind of meaningful, purposeful environment, so whether that is in practice, whether that is in research and whether that is in the classroom, it's being one's genuine self. And I think that what professors have issues with, researchers or practitioners, is also saying that I do not know. And it's okay to say. I do not know because you do not know one's lived experience. How could you know? And I think that BIPOC folks understand status quo folks because we have no choice. We are placed into a US construct where if we do not know the status quo's story, we will not survive in this construct.

We must know it if we are to be successful in any way, and that is what status quo people must understand. We must be very fluent in a status quo construct if we are going to survive. If we are going to be successful, we have to. However, status quo, people do not need to know our story. Our story is minimized, right? And it is meaningless in a status quo construct in some way, right, unless one is just simply curious. And the reason that I say that is because now when it comes to people of color, black and brown or Asian folks telling their story, it is almost like prying. And that's very important to understand, so this is why some people of color are seemingly put off or become angered when people are inquiring about our story because it is not authentic, it is almost prying, or it is almost kind of like picking or it is kind of, you know, trying to like pick open a wound that's not ready to be opened yet.

And I will say that part of authenticity; if one comes with decency and genuineness, I am really trying to understand, then maybe one will be more open to sharing that story. However, you also have to understand something. I do not owe you anything. I do not owe you my story either, right, because my story is mine. And so I think this is when, in discussions where people just have to be decent with each other, if someone wants to share their story, then take that story and honor it right, and be decent. But you know, I consider myself African American, I have other stuff thrown into that, Warren, African American Warren as other stuff, but Warren and I do not have the same story.

Although we have shared stories, we do not have the same story. So if Warren shares a story and I choose not to, then it would be a misnomer to just extend Warren's story to mine. That is not fair, and it is not right. And we find that people do that often, but at the same time, if I do not want to share my story, please do not think me to be combative. You understand. I am not sharing that for a reason. Right, maybe my story is too raw. You know, then I tell my students, if you look at my story, I do not mind saying it. because I think I look amazing for my age, right? I am like I am 44 years old, but on one side of my family, do you know, I am only like six generations out of slavery and five generations out of indentured servitude. On the other side, I am five generations out of slavery, four generations out of indentured servitude, and you want me to sit here and have a discussion of slavery as if it happened 300 years ago?

Not for me, maybe for someone else, but not for me. And I bring that to students' consciousness and awareness. That is something that you may feel happened so long ago hasn't happened so long ago for other people, you know? And so that is why authenticity, I think, is so important because it helps us stay human. And that is one thing that, despite white supremacy and discrimination and oppression, one thing that we all have in common if you want to get past anti-racism and DEI, that I hope that one day we all find we all are human. And if we all can find that connection of humanness and decency, then maybe we can be our authentic selves. Maybe we can sit down and have these conversations and understand one another and having these conversations with each other.

Ben: Absolutely; practicing from our authentic self takes work. It is not something that necessarily just happens, but something that we have to be conscious of. I know that in a lot of social work classes that I teach, and I am sure in many of your classrooms as well, I try to instill the importance of this idea of authentic self-reflection and self-correction to my students. This idea of reflecting on that old idea of cultural competence, do not even get me started on that, that's one of my, one of my, this conversation will shift if you get me going on that, on that term cultural competence. But the idea of reflecting on that on that, that old idea of cultural competence and engaging in a true and pure effort at self-reflection in a more meaningful way, I think, is also a big part of those current grand challenges of social work and those challenges for us as practitioners and those challenges for us as social work educators. Can you say a little bit more about why this is so important?

Candice: Which part?

Ben: This idea of authentic self-reflection, this idea of authentic self-correction and thinking about it in a different way, and why now is the time, now that we are engaging in the grand challenges, why is this authentic self-reflection and self-correction so important right now?

Candice: Well, it is one of those things; if not now, exactly when? I mean, we have been a profession for quite some time, and we haven't done it yet. I mean, at what point are we going to do it? You know, and social work, we have done so much harm, and one of the things that we need to call ourselves to correction is what is dangerous about social work. Social work is a beautiful profession; it really is, but what is dangerous? Social work is also a very dangerous profession. Because we cause, harm people do not see. Unlike medicine and in other professions, you know, if you write an incorrect script or you cut, you know, somebody the wrong leg off, well, my goodness, you are going to notice that one, but when you severely harm somebody, and you hurt someone so deeply, and then that person goes home and harm themselves who will know that?

No one will know that story. And we do that to people. And how many of us have done that to people, that deep-rooted harm, you know? And I tell my students it is a harm to the human spirit that we do to people all the time, day in and day out. And we go home, and we pat ourselves on the back, and we think we have done great work in social justice. And we have annihilated people's souls over decades. So at what point exactly are we supposed to start this work, if not right now? And as a profession, we are so quick to look at other people and look at other people's professions we are quick to say, oh, Mr. President, you need to do this. And we are quick to say oh, this group needs to do that. And then, when it comes to our group, we need to be aware. We need to start working on it.

No, at what point are we not going to hold ourselves accountable? You know, and at what point do we maybe push people out of our profession? I am going to say it there are some people that do not belong in our profession. There are some people who do not belong here. And I know they thought they meant well, but I am going to just say it. If you cannot move with the flow of what we are supposed to be doing, maybe you need to, what do they say, free up your future. Maybe you need to free up your future and do something else. I mean, look, we live in the United States of America, we got so many racist professions you can be in. Go find one of them because social work is not one that you need to be in, you know? And we just need to do better. There are too many people hurting in the world. So I think that authentic self-reflection is part of what makes us human, and let us be one of those professions to be human and to show humanness, that that is my personal take on it. 

Warren: Oh, I love that. So yeah, what she said, but. When I think about self-reflection and self-correction, and self-assessment that requires vulnerability and no one, even the racist student, I do not think they even go into this profession to fail at it. So the idea is that they cannot be vulnerable because that, for them, means failure. I think that is also really important. In order to heal the hurt, what is being done is students and future social workers, and existing social workers are causing harm from a place of deficit. And to bring up that there is a deficit, for them, attacks this self-concept and attacks self-esteem when it does not have to be.

So just as a brief story, overseeing field, we interview students for their placement choices, and we ask them about their lived experiences and how those experiences might contribute to the work that needs to be done in any given organization. And I have had students say that their ultimate goal is to become a psychotherapist. So we talk about how that is not social work, but it is service delivery, right? And just on probing, why psychotherapists to have students say, I have never grown up around diversity in difference. And for me becoming a psychotherapist, I can control for diversity. I can control who comes in that door. So the idea that we are practicing out of fear, the idea is that we are moving away from the grand challenges, the code of ethics, and everything else that would suggest we are preparing students to be able to work with everybody, with the foresight knowing that they are coming in with a very narrow view of where they want to go.

And even their field placement choices reflect that, you know, put me in private practice because, ultimately, that is where I want to go. Well, how is that going to help you with understanding all nine core competencies? And what they look like and may help with engagement or maybe assessment, but what about the others? You know, so it is, that self-reflection is, I think, what is lacking, and I think in order to adequately and inappropriately address that, we have to literally envision ourselves as gatekeepers for the profession. Like Dr. Beasley said, not every student sitting in that seat needs to graduate, and not every professional who is already in the field needs to stay in the field.

Yeah, I received an email when I started private practice from someone who found me online and wanted help. And the email said, N-word, you do not belong in this community. And when I shared that with the social worker I shared space with, she did not initially understand why that was a problem. So the idea that someone was on a website who needs help and is looking for help, and my picture triggered that person to the degree that they would then reach out and send me an email, that is problematic, right, and it is problematic that would not and did not outrage everyone who actually heard that story. So we need to do better in encouraging self-reflection and actually moving towards self-correction for students and colleagues.

Candice: And I agree with that, and I agree with that one, and I do want to throw in because I am that person who always wants to be fair, right. But I would also say, and we would be remiss if we did not say, that people of color and colleagues of color and students of color must also be patient when there are status quo, people who are trying to authentically and genuinely understand and go through that process, that we cannot hold people to the fire and accountable when they're really authentically trying to understand, because we do that as well, that when people are in space, and they are like, please help me, I am really trying to understand, and I am trying to do better.

And I am recognizing that I come from a place of white supremacy, and I am recognizing that I do not understand this. Can you please just try to help me? Although it is not our work to do, but whose work is it? And so they are like, I am really trying to understand and how very hard we condemn those people and how very hard we come down on those people. And so I will also say because we would be remiss if we did not do that, we also play a part in running people who are authentically trying to understand and grasp these concepts and are authentically trying to do introspection and self-reflection and change. We are also scaring them away as well because then we lower the boom on them, and we start yelling and fussing.

I have seen that happen in classes as well, where I actually have to back the students of color off of a very well-meaning status quo student who just really do not understand, and they're really trying to understand, and people are yelling, why do not you understand this concept? And they really just do not. So once again, going back to being authentic, decent, and human and having patience with one another, working with one another to understand these concepts, and all of us are hurting in some kind of way. And to be honest, racism, discrimination, oppression, and white supremacy is hurting all of us. It's destroying all of us as humankind, it's it really is, you know, and it's taking away decency from all of us. So I think all of us need to do a little bit better by each other.

Ben: Absolutely, and so along with that, can this idea of self-correction exist without authentic connection that you are speaking to now?

Warren: Absolutely not, because I do not think that allows you to treat the people around you and the people in your space as human. I do not think it respects who they are. It does not respect the relationship between the two of you. So how are you going to kind of get in touch with who you are and your experiences, and even understanding your limitations around self-reflection and self-correction. If you do not build an authentic, real relationship with the other person, you may be engaged in a conversation with? Like I said, that requires vulnerability. It requires someone to say; you know what? I do not know; I do not know how to help you. I do not know what that means. Can you help me help you, right?

And it sounds hokey, right? But literally, help me to understand because I have no frame of reference. Actually, that admission comes from a place of power, and we should not minimize that. We should not make students feel less than because they do not know. Going back to what Dr. Beasley said earlier with backing BIPOC students off of their peers who may not understand what it is to live under the constant weight of oppression. We have to do better, and we have to start encouraging first faculty to start having these authentic relationships with students so that students can mirror having these relationships as interns. And hopefully, they carry this with them into their professional life.

Candice: Absolutely, absolutely. I completely agree with that. You know, and that is another problem. I think in practice, if you have the practitioner who is scared to have these conversations fearful, and now in the classroom, you have the instructors fearful to have honest conversations. And that is another problem for a whole different webinar, you know, fearful of having these conversations. Then, of course, and I have seen practitioners who are fearful of asking their clients, well, tell me about your lived experience or clients saying, you know what, I am hurting because this is what's happened in the world, or I am hurting because these things are triggering me and just practitioners glancing over that. And then coming back and saying they will not even acknowledge that.

And I am telling them that this is what is causing discord in my home. Can you help me find another therapist? Because they won't even acknowledge that this is what's hurting me. And it's really because the practitioner is uneasy about even having these conversations as well. And then they just want to go back to, well, tell me about you thinking about divorce. They just want to jump right back into CBT and those types of things. And it is just not going to work. I think as social workers, once again, we have got to be okay with not being okay and having these conversations. Racism is just something that is part of the U.S. construct, whether you like it or not.

And it has to be something that we, as professionals, have got to be comfortable with discussing and speaking about with one another and all of us who are currently living right now. We did not produce it, we did not create it, but we sure perpetuate it. And we are the ones that must deal with it if we want life to be better for those of us coming after us.

Ben: Right. Right, so with that, I just want to thank you both for joining me for this first hour of the podcast for those of you that are listening. I do hope that you'll continue this conversation with us in the second hour of our podcast because this is just the beginning. And this first hour, we have discussed what equity, diversity, and inclusion are and what anti-racist social work practice is. We have talked about who we are as a profession, what our core values are, those ideas of social justice, those ideas of an ethical commitment to diversity, those ideas of human relationships and respect for dignity, and why this idea of anti-racist social work practice and anti-racist social work education is so important.

In our second hour, we are going to hopefully continue to make ourselves feel a little bit uncomfortable because we are going to talk about why we fear change, why we fear that status quo homeostasis that we have been socialized into in our social work profession. And we are going to talk about what we can do with that. How can we truly commit to this idea of anti-racist social work practice, to this idea of authenticity, this idea of authentic equity, diversity, and inclusion, and where do we go from here? How can we then take that commitment and mobilize it into creating action. Warren and Candice, thank you so much for joining me on this first hour. And I look forward to continuing with part two of this podcast conversation.

Candice: Thank you so much for having us.

Warren: Thank you.

References

A complete list of references is available in the course handout.